Episode 117, Pattern Recognition with Brigadier General David Winnacker

In episode 117, I sit down with Brigadier General David Winnacker, USMC, for a wide-ranging conversation about leadership, professional development, and what it means to deliberately prepare people for greater responsibility. We explore the contrast between the Marine Corps’ “up or out” culture and the fire service, where leadership development is often less structured and requires us to actively seed the field—demystifying staff roles, challenging people to self-actualize in their careers, and creating reasons for talented people to step forward and lead. Brigadier General Winnacker shares lessons on seizing opportunities—“when there’s an opportunity, you take it”—building the right tools in your leadership toolbox, and developing the pattern recognition necessary to know which tool to use and when. We also get into the tension between firefighters loving to be challenged but hating to be tested, the influence of Stockdale and Stoic philosophy, and how leaders should approach change, emerging technology, data, and evidence-based practice. Underneath it all is a simple question about succession and responsibility: if not you, then who? And as we look toward the future, we consider why good leaders must be willing to “carefully interrogate the language of the past” without losing the lessons that language was meant to carry forward.

 

A little more about today’s guest…

 

Fire Chief (ret) Dave Winnacker spent 21 years in the fire service in Fresno City, Alameda County, and as chief of the Moraga-Orinda Fire District from 2017-2024. He served as the Western Fire Chiefs Association California Director, as the California Fire Chiefs Association WUI Task Force lead, and as the fire service representative on the California AB9 Wildfire Mitigation Committee and the California AB642 Risk Modeling Advisory Workgroup. At Stanford University he is a Hoover Institution Veteran Fellow working on the intersection of wildfire and property insurance with an emphasis on the pricing of risk. In the private sector, he was the co-founding advisor to ZoneHaven, an evacuation software in use throughout California and is a co-founder of XyloPlan Risk, a wildfire risk assessment and visualization company. Prior to joining the fire service, he served on active duty as a Marine Corps Infantry officer from 1997-2004 and remained in the reserve component serving as the Commanding Officer, 4th Force Reconnaissance Company from 2014-2016, as the Deputy Commander, 23D Marine Regiment from 2019-2022, as the Chief of Staff, Marine Innovation Unit from 2022-2024, and currently serves as the Commanding General, Force Headquarters Group.

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